Give a F*k presented by Spark Consciousness
We're dropping knowledge bombs and answering your burning questions about Nature, animals, spirituality, mental health, women's empowerment, and other profound topics.
This podcast probably won't change your life, but hopefully, it will give you some food for thought - some guidance on this twisted path we call human existence.
A presentation of Spark Consciousness, hosted by Sarah Woodard
Give a F*k presented by Spark Consciousness
Navigating Life's Challenges with Mindful Awareness w/Julian Royce #changemakers series
Can mindfulness and meditation truly transform your life? Join us as we welcome Julian Royce, a therapist and mindfulness coach, who shares his incredible journey from high school fascination to profound study in India and Nepal.
Julian reveals how these practices helped him overcome feelings of alienation, providing powerful tools to navigate life's challenges and build a true sense of belonging. Learn how mindfulness can be likened to learning to drive a car with awareness and the delicate balance between pursuing goals without falling into the trap of desperation.
We also explore the beautiful intersection of mindfulness, trust, and the joy found in life's uncertainties. We discuss the importance of observing our thoughts and emotions without being consumed by them, fostering a sense of safety and inner peace.
This episode promises a thought-provoking conversation, encouraging listeners to embrace imperfections and foster a compassionate approach to personal and environmental healing. Don't miss this enriching and transformative discussion!
Resources:
Julians' Instagram
Julian's Podcast
Julian's Website
Julian's Email
Websites: 🌐
Spark Consciousness
Books
Level-up your connection with Nature in my free mini-course.
Start here!
Course:
The Soulful Seeker
Sisterhood:
The Soulful Sisterhood
Support Us: 🦋
Mindfulness, meditation and healing Mother Earth they all go together, and Julian Royce is here to tell us all about it. Join us on Season 2, episode 17 of Give a Fuck, presented by Spark Consciousness, to learn all about it. So welcome to Season 2, episode 17. We are here with Julian. Julian, why don't you hop on, introduce yourself and then feel free to ask me a question if you want to?
Speaker 2:Sounds good. Thanks, Sarah. Thanks for having me on the podcast. Yeah, my name is Julian Reis. I'm based here in Boulder, Colorado, and I work as a therapist with mental health and coaching and teach meditation and mindfulness and I've been practicing that for a long time and have my own podcast called the State of Mind and had Sarah on that as well. So excited to share that soon. And yeah, it's a little introduction to me. I'm also a musician. I play guitar.
Speaker 1:Oh cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Very cool. So how did you first get into mindfulness and meditation and all of that?
Speaker 2:a time of a lot of transition and change for a lot of people and for me. I started to read and get really interested in Buddhism. I remember reading Siddhartha by Herman Hesse.
Speaker 2:And for some reason, for whatever reasons, I was just really drawn to things like that and I had a friend who worked at a bookshop when I was a senior in high school and for my birthday he said I could choose any book in the bookshop. And I remember walking around this bookstore and looking at the different sections and looking at different books and there was your fiction and fantasy and philosophy and all these different books Eventually came to a section on Buddhism and I got a book called Awakening the Buddha Within by Lama Surya Das and that just kind of awoken this thing in me and I've kind of followed that thread ever since. I ended up studying abroad in India and Nepal for a year and a half and so it's just became a big part of my life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think, you know, I think, another answer to your question is just the sense of suffering alienation, feeling like I didn't really fit in, and high school times and meditation, and that just seemed like it made sense to me and it felt helpful and it felt like something I wanted to explore and yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense and I think there's a lot of high schoolers and even grown-ups that can relate to that sense of feeling alienated and like they don't fit in.
Speaker 1:Um can you talk more specifically about how meditation and mindfulness helped you to get through that feel like you found belonging, you know whatever kind of results?
Speaker 2:Well, it can definitely help with our mental suffering and I think in a lot of ways it was designed for that. Yeah, it's interesting, this sense of not belonging, not fitting in. You could call it alienation, whatever words you want to use. It's, uh, I've learned as I've gotten older and through the work I do with people. Now it's, it's not uncommon, like a lot of people feel that to one degree another and, um, if anything, I get the sense that that is increasing for people, that you know, more and more people feel that way and it's so. I think there are cultural reasons for that and it's, you know, there's a kind of irony to it, like so many people feel that way but don't talk about it, Because it kind of, once you start to recognize that other people also feel the way you feel it takes away some of the power of it, and it's kind of this like contradictory thing actually when you look at it, because, yeah, I mean, in some ways we're alone in, obviously, in so many ways we're never really alone, you know.
Speaker 1:Right so yeah, and is it something you you find you use a lot in your therapy practice? Now?
Speaker 2:I do, and it depends on the person that I'm working with, but I'll offer different tools and techniques and yeah, I mean it's such a, that's a big subject, but one, one way that I'm working with but I'll offer different tools and techniques and, yeah, I mean it's such a, that's a big subject, but one, one way that I like to think about it is, um, we're always meditating, all the time anyway.
Speaker 2:You know, we can kind of re re-understand, kind of reframe the way that we understand something like meditation. Um, you know, mindfulness meditation, it's really making conscious the process of what we're putting our focus on, or attention on, or awareness on, and so, in a sense, it can be come a way to learn how to drive your car more consciously, so to speak, like we're going through life, like we use the metaphor of this body is like a car or a vehicle. You know, when we're born we don't get an owner's manual, but it'd be nice to learn how to hit the gas, hit the brakes and how to not hit the gas and the brakes at the same time, which is what a lot of people are doing.
Speaker 1:The whole clutching thing. Yeah, I think, and again, I think a lot of people can relate to that and again, I think a lot of people can relate to that. I was actually just talking to another podcast host about this whole balance between like going after what you want but without like chasing, because chasing has like a desperation to it and there needs to be space for like the universe to work its magic and for like things to work out the way that they're intended. And if you're constantly just chasing, chasing, chasing, you don't give it that breathing room, that room to percolate. But if you don't go after it, nothing happens. And like finding that balance and I feel like that's like a big part of this process of mindfulness and meditation is to to look at your watch, your own thoughts and go am I chasing? This Is there, am I desperate or am I just trying to achieve something that's important to me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good, that's a good distinction and we do want to go after what we want and we want to be clear about what we want and hopefully feel alignment, feel good about it, have a sense of congruency in ourselves. Like this is what I want, and it's right. And usually when people get clear about what they want, and it's right, and, um, usually when people get clear about what they want, it's not just for themselves, but it has this, you know, connection with the larger world, or it's also helping other people.
Speaker 1:Right, or it's, or it's helping them to get to a place where they can do that Right, like, um, the whole Maslow's hierarchy thing which I'm sure you're familiar with as a therapist, so I don't have to teach you what that is, you know like I, I'm trying to move right now and part of that is because I need to live in a place where I feel safe to be a thousand percent me, so that because when I show up as authentically, truly myself, that's when I can be of the most service, and I'm doing the best I can to be of service where I am right now, because this is where I am. But also it's that balancing thing. Right, I have to go after the house that I want, go after where I want to live. But if I try to just chase it down and make it happen immediately, right now, no right, and then you have to take that deep breath and mindfully look at it and go okay, yes, this is all going to be okay.
Speaker 1:I know that this is where I want to be. It's just not working out in the timeline that I want. I feel like that's a way to help people get to that place of balance. Is mindfulness and looking at your thoughts and looking at what's happening in your brain and what is it doing to you and your body and your daily life, and is that healthy for you or not?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good point too. Like that quality of chasing after something can drive it away. I mean, it's certainly true with friendships or romantic relationships.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there has to be that. I'm interested, I want you, but you have some space to breathe, because smothering you will kill the whole thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Right, yes, that spaciousness. It brings up the qualities, like what you were just sharing of, of trust and of safety.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if we're, if we have a sense of trust, then we can. You know if we're, if we have a sense of trust, then we can. You know that can be an antidote to that chasing quality. It's like because you're trusting and that actually goes really deep and it's connected with feeling safe, like our home, like you're looking for a new home, like you want to be safe in your home, you want to be safe in your body, you want to have this bigger trust, like maybe this particular thing that you think you want may or may not happen the way you want it, but the trust in the bigger picture, that like I am going to get my needs met and things are going to work out and maybe I don't know all the details, maybe that's a good thing, maybe that's part of life, right?
Speaker 1:And so I'm working with somebody who actually is up in Fort Collins, which is so funny. But she asked the question if you had a crystal ball and you could ask anything about the future, what would you want to know? And truthfully, I don't want to know anything, because I like that mystery, like what I love to know exactly when I'm going to move in, exactly where that house is, I mean. Sure, but then there's also no fun in the search. There's no fun in the search, there's no fun in going to different places and looking at them and exploring them. And yeah, I mean it's emotionally draining to not know the answer, but at the same time there's some fun and some joy in that journey. And if I knew the answer I wouldn't have the fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's that mystery and unknown.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to have a little of that. I think it keeps life interesting, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would. I would agree, it's important.
Speaker 1:So, how do you like with the mindful? I know like Buddhism is very spiritual, but also very earthy in the sense that, like you know they, they honor other beings, they honor, you know, other humans, and they're more so than a lot of other religious practices. So how do you? Is that even something you do? Do you work with mindfulness and meditation as as long, along with mother earth?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. The whole, the whole Buddhist tradition, especially the one, the forms that I've been involved with. It's all about really serving and helping all life, all sentient beings, all beings that have consciousness, all conscious beings. What does that look like in actuality? While the yeah, I mean there is, there's a deep connection with with earth, with, yeah, the earthiness, the groundedness, look different ways. I mean, like in the actual meditation practices, like yogic practices, there are ways of connecting with the different elements, like the earth element, the water element, the fire element, air, space.
Speaker 2:That's like a core part of the you know of the Buddhist traditions I guess a lot of spiritual traditions, right? Yeah, I think you know, for me personally, like spending time in nature, hiking, backpacking, has been a huge part of my life. It's been really inspiring. A lot of meditation centers or places where people go are in very beautiful natural places, because it it does something for us, right, it uplifts us, it reminds us and it helps us feel connected. Um, so, yeah, I mean it's a good, it's a good question. I think there's different ways. I could yeah, I could kind of like think about that, like, if we become more connected with our body, if we become more embodied, we're accessing more of the elements, more of earth, more, more of the water, more of the fire, like in our, in our own being. So we don't. Buddhism is kind of constantly trying to undermine the sense of separation between ourselves and the world.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's trying to undo that sense of being separate.
Speaker 1:So yeah, which I've always appreciated, because we're not separate, we. Everything is connected, I mean from from the rocks and the leaves, to every sentient being, and I would argue that even like the rocks and the leaves have sentience, but that's not something science can prove yet. So, but yeah, I, I I've always appreciated that perspective. Um, how is that something that you kind of incorporate into your therapy practice, or do you?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, I've often suggested to people or you know, encourage them to go spend more time outside, to go to spend more time in nature, um to find ways to connect with earth or garden. I think there's so many metaphors here. I love the word cultivate. So, to go back to your point you were making about not chasing things, instead of chasing something, I like to say let's cultivate this. You cultivate a certain quality, you cultivate a certain practice, you can cultivate a relationship.
Speaker 1:You can cultivate a better relationship with yourself. Um, I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that cultivate is a beautiful word yeah, yeah and working with our, our minds, our own consciousness, like the metaphor of working with the garden, is such a a good one. It's such a deep one. Um, I think, ideally, when someone is getting more in tune with themselves, more in touch, more healed, feeling better in their life, living a better life, ideally that is extending out and helping them make better choices and treat the earth and treat our resources in a better way. Hopefully, those are all happening together.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's definitely one of the guiding principles, I guess, behind what I do is that the more you connect with Earth, the more you connect with yourself, and the more you do that, the more compassion you have, and you project that compassion outward. They say hurt people, hurt people, right, if somebody's being nasty to you, it's because they don't feel good about themselves. And I think the reverse is also true. When you have compassion for yourself like truly, truly accept yourself for all the ways that you are imperfect, because we are human beings and we are going to always be imperfect then it's much easier to accept somebody else's imperfections, even if maybe they are impacting your life in ways you don't appreciate.
Speaker 1:And you can still have those boundaries and say, hey, look, this is not a healthy situation for me, but you can do it in a way that isn't just I'm done with you and I can't stand you and you're a horrible person. It can just be look, I get that, this is where you're at in your life, but this is not working for me, this is not healthy for me, and peace, love and joy, but I got to go. You know, at least that's been my experience, right. Or, like I my mom has always struggled with her weight and as I'm getting older I'm starting to now engage in that same struggle and I had to really get to a point of accepting the fact that my body is just going to change and it's okay. My mom is the weight that she is and to not in the back of my mind, never out loud, but in the back of my head still judge her. Sometimes people think like, well, if you're not saying it out loud, you're being kind. Well, you're not being mean. But that's not true compassion.
Speaker 2:True compassion is when you've been able to get to that place of it not being in your brain going right and we, you know, we all have those things that are in the back of our brain that we don't say, and the more you work on that internal stuff, the less it's there. Yeah, again, that's been my experience. Yeah, yeah, it's good to notice the thoughts, notice the judgments. I mean mean, I think humans are judging machines.
Speaker 2:Oh, we are I don't want to say machine, but judging creatures. So we're constantly, constantly making these judgments, and so it can. It's good to notice them, catch them and just know. Like you don't have to believe them, like you don't have to right, like not every thought we have is of equal weight or importance, because, like, we can consciously believe something and then we can have other thoughts. So sometimes it's just like the sound of the wind, right, like that's a traditional buddhist metaphor. Like, let your thoughts be like the sound of the wind, like you don't give it enough to give it so much meaning right right yeah, which can be.
Speaker 2:It can be part of like compassion to yourself, like right exactly so you're not beating yourself up for for negative thoughts, but, yeah, ideally those, those can shift and change when we can, because it's like you're not beating yourself up for for negative thoughts, but, yeah, ideally those, those can shift and change when we can, because it's like you're saying, it's typically when we're judging someone else, it's it's something that we don't, we're not comfortable with in ourselves, right?
Speaker 1:exactly, exactly and so yeah, like I said, that's like a guiding principle behind everything I do with spark consciousness is that we, we connect with Earth and that through that we learn lessons that help us be compassionate for ourselves, and then we can be more compassionate for every living being not just other humans, but literally every being on the planet and Mother Earth and we take better care of her, and it becomes like this whole ongoing cycle, ongoing circle of healing and compassion and more healing and more compassion, cause we're always I mean, we are human beings, like this is a part of our life journey is that we are always going to have something that we have to work on, because we're just not, we're not meant to be perfect, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a. That's a big one for a lot of us. I think it's a be okay, not being perfect, to check the perfectionism Like what would that even mean?
Speaker 1:What does that even look like? Yeah, and I think it's different for everyone, but we're not ever going to be, and it's much easier to get through life when we're able to look at our own stuff that we didn't do as well as we wish we had and go okay, good lesson, and I'll try to do better next time and then let it go, rather than like obsessing on it at three o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that you see a lot of people who struggle with that in your therapy practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, a lot of people and I, of course, see this in myself too of um, struggle with like inner criticism, right yeah, judging ourselves, beating ourselves up, feeling like we're not good enough, we're not doing enough, not earning enough money or not in the shape we want to be in, or whatever it is, and it can, unfortunately, it can be like this chronic thing like kind of driving us and constantly in the background, and I think it's super important to get a handle on that and really confront that, really wrestle that, really make ideally like make friends with ourselves, make friends with that inner critic and transform that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know if you're familiar with this, but one of my favorite therapy methodologies is inner family systems. Yeah, yeah, I don't know if you're familiar with this, but one of my favorite therapy methodologies is inner family systems, yeah, yeah, and I just love it because it's literally making friends with all of those parts of yourself you know, and I, from probably birth, was extremely needle phobic, I mean to the point where, like, even just thinking about getting a shot would send me into a panic attack.
Speaker 1:And I guess, like three years ago or so, I finally connected with a therapist who did inner family systems, and she was also trained in shamanism, like I am, and so, instead of doing it kind of the way that traditionally it's done, she actually was able to incorporate journeying with inner family systems therapy, which is such a beautiful marriage. And I was able to befriend this needle phobic part of myself to the point where by the time I moved out to Colorado like a year and a half ago or two years ago, I guess it would have been and then I've moved back to East at this point, but when I was out there I was actually able to go to acupuncture, which I could never have imagined doing, because even those little teeny non needles that they use in acupuncture was way too much for me. But I did it and it was. It was like, oh, all right, and like it works when you make friends with those parts of yourself that are in some way shape or form struggling.
Speaker 1:It does work. It takes time, but it works. Yeah, it's something I still continue to do. I still continue to like when I hear that, like that voice of doubt being like you don't have any marketable skills, I can go, okay, why Hold on? This part of me is talking.
Speaker 2:Good yeah.
Speaker 1:Why do you think that? And let's really deconstruct this, because that doesn't sound true. So let's see where this is really coming from and if we can help you to feel better about this and befriend that. And you know, and I personally find it to be extremely useful. Yeah, it's be extremely useful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's become really popular and I actually get to do a workshop with Richard Schwartz who developed IFS Internal Family Systems a couple of years ago. Yeah, it's super powerful. It's. There's a long history of different therapy modalities that are using a similar thing, like there was like with gestalt therapy. There was like parts work there was.
Speaker 2:So there's been this like kind of evolution of it and I think internal family systems is great and I just wanted to note it's kind of built on previous therapists and modalities and just this observation it's like as if we have a little group living inside our head, right when we kind of do and we do yeah, we have these sub personalities and I think carl young was was talking about that too to some degree, and it can connect with the idea of archetypes and our collective consciousness, because some of these voices that we experience are from society, from our parents, right, we've like internalized different viewpoints and ideas, and so it can be such a deep, rich exploration yeah and it can be from.
Speaker 1:You know it can be a part that's trying to even protect you from something that is no longer happening to you but your brain and your body have held on to. And when you befriend that part and you talk it through and you're like, okay, no, I get that. I get that that was a traumatic, really awful situation. But guess what, we're like 15 years older now and that's not happening anymore. So are we okay now? You know it can be. It can be very enlightening about, like your own life journey. It can be. It can be very enlightening about like your own life journey.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, yeah, yeah. And one, one of the um, one of the most potent questions that I'll ask people when we do cause I'll do parts work like that with with some people and we can work with the part, identify a part, work with it and then ask it how old do you think you are?
Speaker 1:You know, how old does it think, yeah, oh yeah, Sometimes that's very interesting, yeah. And also another one I really liked was how old do you think you are was fascinating. But also like, who else do you think you're with? Because sometimes it's like, oh, that, yeah, that person like hasn't been a part of our lives for, like ever, you know, or like you know, some of the information that comes back is really, again, it's very enlightening about, like your own life journey and why you're at where you are today, and so I feel like it helps with two things right, it heals those parts of you that that need the support and need the compassion, but it also helps you give more compassion to your present day self because you understand why you're at where you're at.
Speaker 2:Right, right. You know, yeah, yeah, it helps make sense of it, it helps understand it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I think I I I'm a big proponent of it. I talk about it a lot on the show because I just think it's great so. So what other like techniques do you use in your practice?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Internal family systems is definitely something I'll use it kind of. I try to be, you know, with the individual person and try to find what works best for them. And the mindfulness techniques are often, you know, they're foundational or like increasing our awareness of what's here. You think.
Speaker 1:I do a lot with EMDR, which is one of the most people that don't know explain what EMDR is.
Speaker 2:Okay, uh, emdr is, um, the most research supported way to work with and heal PTSD and trauma. Um, and it stands for eye movement, desensitization, reprocessing therapy, which is a mouthful, and that's why we call it emdr yeah, I think it's a not a good name.
Speaker 2:I think it's it should. A better name would just be reprocessing therapy, in my opinion, um, but it's uh again, like a lot of the stuff in therapy, like there's so many different therapy modalities and types of therapy and coaching and working with people and a lot of them are related or connected or based on earlier work. So the EMDR is, it uses elements of previous therapies, like you want to. There's actually eight steps to it. So with some people I will go with them through the whole process it could be really potent, really powerful, especially people who are suffering from significant trauma. So you want to.
Speaker 2:You know the first steps. You want to be creating safety and trust and finding that safety in yourself have different tools, and one of the tools that you want to have before diving into working with trauma directly is you want to be able to what I call consciously compartmentalized, like put it to the side. So a lot of times when something really difficult or bad has happened, it's kind of hanging out in the background. You know something that was overwhelming difficult, maybe you know terrible. Whatever it was in the past, it's still affecting you in the present. That's like the definition of trauma from the mental health point of view.
Speaker 1:Right yeah, we we.
Speaker 2:You want to be able to like in the therapy session, like work with your stuff, then you also want to be able to like put it to the side to some degree, which isn't the same as repressing it or trying to forget about it, but you want to be able to not be, you know, so impacted, but affected by it all the time it's like putting it in a box on the shelf yeah, yeah, yeah, be able to contain it, to be able to have some healthy boundaries with yourself and with whatever it is.
Speaker 2:And so we developed that and then the whole reprocessing thing. It's similar, honestly, to exposure therapy. You are going towards what feels the most difficult, what feels the most disturbing, and then you're being with it in a way where you can feel what's there to be felt. And then you're being with it in a way where you can feel what's there to be felt and you can allow it to be felt, to be experienced and to be healed and kind of process through your system. You know it has like we want to be in our bodies while we're doing it. We want to.
Speaker 2:One of the trickiest parts of working with this kind of thing can be disassociation, which is a trauma response. Right when you check out, you go someplace else, you're no longer in your body, no longer present. It can, right where you check out, you go someplace else, you're no longer in your body, no longer present. Um, it can be really subtle, but that's. You know that sometimes that comes up. Yeah, the the main thing that mdr is known for is this technique called bilateral stimulation. You're stimulating the two sides of your nervous system, like left right. So one of the techniques that people often use is this like you're tapping yourself and for, so we only record audio.
Speaker 1:So for people it's it's like you cross your arms and you tap one shoulder and then the other, one shoulder and then the other yeah, or there's, or there's also like you can do, like sounds that ping to either side or a light that pings from one side to the other.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of different ways yeah, yeah, and so the eye movement and the emdr eye movement, desensitization, reprocessing was. Originally it was used with the eye movement, so looking from left to right kind of all the way to peripheral vision and back, it's helping your nervous system to process and release trauma and it's kind of rewires it and rewires it. Yeah, and it's mysterious how that works, but it does work for a lot of people, and so it does I.
Speaker 1:I was I don't know how many years ago now four or five, I guess Um, I had a bat come into my house, like, not just once, but multiple times, and at first, you know, I wasn't, I was upset and freaked out and got over it, and but it kept happening and by the time I finally got the situation resolved, I was so traumatized I was afraid to go to sleep in my bed because I was afraid the bat was going to come back. This is not a good place to be, um, and in part because it was kicking off the needle phobia too, because all I could think was rabies vector species, and those shots are a whole series and it's not just one, and they're painful. And then your stomach and total panic, right. And so I was like, okay, well, I have to be able to sleep in my bed. This is ridiculous, right.
Speaker 1:And so I found just an app for my phone that did the, just did like the eye movement with a, with like a ball of light on the screen, and I think it went like like, when it went back and forth, it made like a click and I was like I'm just going to try it. I was like there, you know, I have nothing to lose, it's not going to hurt me, and I'm just going to try it. And so I just put myself in that headspace of oh my God, it's a bat, and did the eye movement and within like three or four days I was able to go to sleep in my bed. It was still scary, but I did it.
Speaker 1:And enough times of doing it, I was able to prove to myself see, there is no bat in your house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's a good example, and you were able to do that on your own.
Speaker 1:It sounds like yeah, yeah, I mean I don't necessarily advise it for everyone, but you know like I I at that point in life had had enough therapy and enough training in mindfulness and all of that that I felt comfortable doing it on my own. But for people that this is like all brand new, I would definitely suggest like finding somebody who can walk you through the whole process, because you don't want to make it worse for yourself either.
Speaker 2:Right, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, if you have significant trauma it's you know would be advised to work with a therapist who's trauma-informed and knows what they're doing. Yes for sure. But yeah, a lot of those things can be helpful. There are ways of regulating our nervous system and so when you walk, when you go for a walk, your left, right, left right steps are regulating, they're balancing our nervous system. Yeah, and swinging your arms also, yeah exactly, yeah, lots of ways to do that.
Speaker 1:It's a bilateral thing right Like even even though people may primarily use one side of their brain or the other, we still need both. What are some of your other kind of favorite ways of of working with clients?
Speaker 2:Sometimes, you know, talking about dreams that have come up can be, can be a potent thing that can be part of of the process.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a very Carl Young thing too. He was all about dreams and symbols.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that can. It can be really helpful to have someone to help you go deeper and unpack that and get to a deeper understanding of it, especially if there's like a repetitive, a reoccurring dream. Right, it's like something is asking for attention there.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, I'm very big on that also. I, from the time I was a kid, I always had recurring dreams and they come back. It's like a movie, like it will come back again and again until I figure out what it means. But sometimes, like it's like some part of me knows I need more information, so it'll like go a little bit longer, and then a little bit longer, and and I'll get more of and then and then like I figure it out and I never have the dream again. Interesting yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, dreams are fascinating.
Speaker 1:They are I'll do.
Speaker 2:I'll do things like mindfulness and meditation practices, like we talked about, but also breathwork has been super powerful and can incorporate some of that or visualization things, and then a lot of talk therapy, sometimes like it's a bad rap.
Speaker 2:I like to offer both what's called bottom-up approaches and top-down approaches. So the bottom-up approaches are really based in your body, in the present moment, feeling our emotions directly in our body, and it can kind of we don't always have to understand everything. We don't have to, conceptually, you know. So it's kind of going deeper, in a sense, than our thoughts, but our thoughts are important. The top-down approaches are working more with our thinking, with our understanding, with our beliefs, and so a lot of talk therapy is helping people think through things, think more clearly, have more realistic, clear, positive thoughts that are more accurate and more helpful and more true, and that's often a big part of the work I do.
Speaker 2:We have all these thoughts that we're aware of, which I call surface level thoughts, the chitchat, the you know, this, the that, whatever, whatever it is, and then underneath that are our beliefs and our. Our beliefs are really a different kind of thing. It's not the same as just the thought, you know, like if I, just I could use my thinking mind to think like, oh, I could fly to the top of this tree or I could make a million gold coins pile up on the floor here. I'm not actually believing that, it's an imagination and our beliefs are kind of what run the show Anytime we're having emotions strong emotions, depression, sadness, fear, anger, hatred or positive emotions, love or inspiration they're always coming from and connected to beliefs, so we can identify those beliefs, make them conscious and challenge unhealthy, untrue beliefs. That's a big part of healing.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you this, because it kind of just struck, it struck something with me and I feel like I have to ask this Um, do you feel like, when there's like a disconnect between, like the thought and the belief, that that's when people struggle with things like manifesting and happiness and joy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that could be a part of it.
Speaker 1:I think so, yeah and so what do you, what do you like recommend for people to to connect the two, like, if the thoughts are all, like in the right you know zone and moving in the right direction, but then the belief somehow is just not connected, like, how do you join them up?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's. That's a good question.
Speaker 1:You know, like your example was, like you know you could fly or make gold coins or whatever, and I get that those were extreme examples, but just hypothetically, like if you really think that in your brain but the belief is missing. How do you bring the belief on board?
Speaker 2:Well, I, you know, in general, like I like to like a very powerful question is asking like is that true? Is that true? And and holding someone there, going deeper, going deeper, staying with it, um, because that's that's helping us get you know, get to what we really believe. But it can also help us kind of unlodge and dig up negative beliefs. Is that true? And you kind of work with it and know, okay, that's not really true and it's not a magic bullet that belief could still reappear, but you're starting to loosen up the foundation. You're starting toear, but you're you're starting to loosen up the foundation, you're starting to dig it out, you're starting to question it and not be under its spell as much.
Speaker 2:And hopefully either whether it happens in that moment or over some period of time. Um, like you, like when you know it will, it will lessen its in its power and eventually, eventually, it might not be there at all. Like you have the example of um, I'm trying to remember what you said earlier whatever beliefs we have are giving rise to our thoughts.
Speaker 2:So, oh yeah, like you have, like judging your mom, like oh, my mom weighs a certain amount and I'm having a negative judgment about that and I don't like that negative judgment. And you know you could ask like is that what I really believe? Is that really true? And you say, well, no, that's. Is that what I really believe? Is that really true? And you say, well, no, that's not what I what I really believe. It's not really true, but still, those thoughts might still be coming up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm even thinking like in the reverse, and so here's why, here's why I'm asking. So I I feel like my thoughts are, you know, reasonable and true and accurate, but at the same time, like things don't seem to like work out as easily for me as they do for other people who are potentially trying to go for the same types of goals right, not the exact same goal, but similar things, right? And yet I'm doing all this inner work and I know that maybe their journey doesn't look as easy, like may look easier to me than it actually is for them. I get that there might be some disconnect between what I'm seeing and what's actually happening in their lives, but there's a part of me that's always wondered like, do I have a self-limiting belief that I am not even aware that I am having? That is the disconnect, and so how do you like uncover that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good, good question and I think, with the manifesting stuff, there's truth to it, there's power to it. I think it's good to be you know, one step at a time, and like you, kind of what's that expression? Feel the fear and do it anyway.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And I do that very well, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're kind of curious, like, is there, are there limiting beliefs here that I'm not even aware of? Yeah Well, you know, we're, we're aware of what we're aware of, you know, and you can. One thing you could do is just be in your body, like really be present, feeling your whole body, and say a sentence or say a belief and see what comes up in your body, what comes up emotionally, energetically. Is there tension, is there resistance? Are you all of a sudden having a memory from being five years old and like not being chosen to be the class president for the day, or whatever it?
Speaker 1:was, whatever it was, yeah yeah, and so, yeah, you can kind of like dig in, I like that idea, yeah, yeah, okay, see, now I'm gonna try it and I will. I will work back on the next episode how it went part of the part of the point of.
Speaker 1:We want to become more and more embodied and our, our mind is in our entire body, like it's not separate right and so yeah, sometimes we're we're thinking one thing, but we're feeling something else, and so there could be yeah, well, there's a, there's a disconnect right and and, like I said, I've just always wondered if I have some sort of subconscious one that I'm just not even aware of, because I am very aware of my thoughts and I do. I work very hard on being mindful and watching that thought process and going wait a minute. Is that true? No, okay, what's really?
Speaker 1:true, like yeah but but at the same time, like, for example, with this house search, right like I and I'm very like and I'm intuitive and I trust my gut, and yet somehow it seems like, sometimes it almost feels like there's like like a third party entity that's like block walls, walls, walls and I know that that's not really true, right like, that's just not how it works, like nobody's out to get me. I get that, but that's how it appears. Because it's like, because I feel, feel like, well, but I'm doing, I'm doing the inner work and I'm doing that why?
Speaker 1:And so I think I need to like sit and just go like, for example, I could say you know, when I'm in the right headspace, I could say to myself I am worthy of a house where I feel safe and all of the things that I'm trying to get with that and see what actually happens, because maybe the way I'm blocking myself is, although my brain says I'm worthy of it, some part of me is not on board yet, right, yeah, it could be. And if I can uncover that, then I can work with that. Yeah, so yeah, I'm going to try. I'm going to try that. That's a cool tip. Do you have any other cool tips for people who might be feeling stuck in some way?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean this is easier to say than to do, perhaps, but to just keep trying like, to not take like. If you try one time like you're looking for a house and you go look at one house and it's not the right one, obviously you're not for a house and you go look at one house and it's not the right one, obviously you're not gonna, you're not gonna stop. But if it happened a dozen times you might be more likely to stop and it's been more than that.
Speaker 1:But yes, no, I get what you're saying.
Speaker 2:We're coming up on four months so to not not take anything like that that's happening as evidence of your self-worth or something about you as a human. I heard a story of Colonel Sanders. Right, colonel Sanders created Kentucky Fried Chicken for better or worse, but obviously a very successful fast food fried chicken thing. Um, according to the story I heard, he was 65 years old when he had the idea to create a restaurant and franchise it. And he went around to um different restaurants and he said you can, you can sell my, my chicken recipe, but you have to pay me a percentage of your profits from it, like for the rest of your life. And he, he received a thousand no's before he got his first yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he just kept going, he just kept yeah, and then it actually did become one of the biggest in the world. So that's just, you know, an inspiring story of, like, whatever age you're at, you know, I mean he was 65 when he started this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's possible to have these big changes and it's just possible to like persevere and not not take, not have an experience of not getting what you think you want. You know affect your self-esteem, affect what you're going after, affect your self-worth, you know it's like yeah you can learn from it.
Speaker 2:You can hear another way to say. It is like we don't ever really experience failure or even rejection. We experience results. It might not be the result you want. Sometimes it's helpful to look at things like you're running an experiment, I'm going to run the experiment, I'm going to change this one thing and run the experiment. I feel good about it. I just haven't found the right person yet. So I'm just going to keep doing it and and like, just to find ways to like, make it, um, not personal, not take it personally yeah, yeah at the end of the day, it's like none of the stuff is really personal.
Speaker 2:That's actually something from the buddhist tradition. To circle back to that yeah you know, when the buddhist teachings talk about there being no self, another way to understand that is none of it's personal, like it's all. Like you said, there's no one really out to get you. In particular, people are and things are happening, based on how they happen.
Speaker 1:I say life is lifing.
Speaker 2:Life is lifing.
Speaker 1:We just unnecessarily personalize or make it about me or mine or or self-assess and that actually causes us suffering and limits us and limits our potential yeah, sometimes life just lives and we don't have to love it, but it happens and the best thing to do is just accept it yeah, yeah, another.
Speaker 2:I mean I guess you probably already know this, but just another thing that can be super potent to use is your imagination. So, and you're probably already doing this, but like you could imagine, like we go with the house example, imagining your, your, the house that you want, and what it would be like yeah um, but then checking in like yeah, is it feeling unrealistic? Is it feeling like I don't deserve that? Is it feeling feeling like I'm just making something up versus like something that's actually become true?
Speaker 1:It's attainable and yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to try that I'm going to report back on how this all goes. I feel like the penny just dropped, like you know that feeling when like you're like.
Speaker 1:Oh, whoa, something just clicked right Like that. I feel like that just is what just happened. I love what. I love those moments, those are the best. So I'm gonna I'm gonna give that a try, because I feel like I've kept saying to my to, like my friends and my realtor I'm like, I feel like I'm in my own way with this, but I don't know how I am in my own way, and so I feel like this is how I can decode how I am in my own way and stop being in my own way because that's not useful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it could be. It could be a part of you, you know, like what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly. And then I but I know how to work with that, right, I've done that, I know how to do that and to say, okay, well, let's, you know, let's walk through this, and how old are you? And you know, do all that questioning, like I know how to do all that. So, yeah, I'm going to report back, I'll let you know. Is there anything else you want to tell my listeners?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to. I'm actually starting what I'm calling an integration group, which will be online and could be, yeah, so anyone listening could potentially join. You could send me an email at a state of mind counsel at gmailcom, or go to my website, which is a state of mind counselingcom, and it's going to be a group that's going to meet. I think we're going to have like six meetings. It's going to be a class with discussion and groups that will form there, and I want to like help people with this process of integration and that could include yeah, it has a lot of different dimensions.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's a big word, but becoming more congruent in yourself, more integrated. If you've had spiritual or life-changing experiences, like having a process of integrating and embodying them and carrying them into your life so it doesn't remain a memory or an experience, but actually something that really transforms and changes you. That's, um, that's a big part of the group, and then we look at ways in which that happens, like connecting deeply, more deeply with yourself, connecting more deeply with other people. So there's this you know we have it's kind of like a different part of our brain that activates when we're socializing, when we're connecting with other people than when we're alone, and so we want to have integration there too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. I will drop your email and your website in the show notes for people so they can come on back over and get that. Great, I want to connect with you, because that sounds super cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you can find me on Instagram, julian Ocean, with two N's at the end of ocean. You can put that in there too.
Speaker 1:I will definitely do that. I'll definitely do that. I'll be doing some Instagram lives and things like that, so you can find me on there. Cool, very cool. Well, thank you again for being on the show and sharing your wisdom and your knowledge and making the penny drop for me, cause we love that, and I will see everyone next time.
